you help and all of the families that you help grieve and commemorate and remember their loved ones, a big thank you and on behalf of america because i think what you do is an incredibly patriotic and important thing. , greg, thank you very much for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. that's all for us tonight. ac 360 starts now. we begin tonight keeping them honest. on the trail of another charity, yet another charity that does a good job raising money and a great job paying the people who run it. as for actually helping the people they're claiming to help, america's wounded warriors, that's another question. it's a familiar question to any of our viewers who have been watching us and especially our correspondent drew griffin confront charities that take in millions while giving develops nearly nothing. in some cases, just some old shoes or bags of m&ms. trying to get people to explain how your donations, the money that you give, tens of millions

of dollars in some cases, end up paying for candies and other useless knickknacks instead of making a difference in the lives of people who have made incredible sacrifices for us all. tonight they have found another one of these organizations. >> i've got to ask you about the money, though. that doesn't answer questions about the money that they are -- that's it? that's all you're going to say? >> that's drew trying to get answer from help hospitalized veterans. remember that name. you're going to hear more on that shortly. hhv's mission claims it's helping sick and injured war veterans. sounds good and reputable, right? the men behind the so-called charity have been helping themselves to excessive salaries and lavish lifestyles while using accounting gimmicks to trick the public into giving more money. drew griffin in is california.

>> reporter: they are handing out craft kits by hospitals, trying to challenge the mind and help pass the time while vets recover. but now they are seeking to make their own recovery. the civil penalties of $4 million for misrepresentations in solace sitting. california says this charity paid excessive salaries, perks, and conducted illegal deals with donated money, all for the benefit of some board members and officers. >> it's a shell game. what we've seen is that instead of focusing their intellectual efforts and energies and energies of the corporation on getting money to help the folks who are in need of help, our injured veterans, instead, they spend all their energy, effort,

and time in these shell games to move money around in order to benefit themselves. >> reporter: according to the charity's latest filings, the president of hhv, michael lynch, was paid a salary of $389,000. and that's just the start. in its complaint, california authorities say money donated for hospitalized veterans also paid for memberships in these two country clubs near lynch's home. a cost of $80,000. donated funds paid for this condominium near washington, d.c. for the use of charity executives. according to the complaint, while help hospitalized veterans have been raking in millions of dollars, $65 million in just the past two years according to tax returns, the charity has misled the irs and its donors about where the funds actually go. we know 44 million has gone to fund-raising. the charity says it spent $16 million on these kits for veterans but the california attorney general's office

questions the charity's accounting. >> there have been a number of misstatements to the irs and other regulators in order to suggest that the corporation is much more efficient than it, in fact, is. >> reporter: and it's not the first time the allegations have been made. california congressman henry waxman has been trying to sound the alarm on help hospitalized veterans since 2008. >> as far as i'm concerned, they ought to be put in jail. it's so terrible what they're doing. using the plight of our veterans to make themselves rich. and playing upon the good, well-meaning americans who want to help veterans and are willing to contribute to that kind of cause. >> reporter: the state of california now wants all of the charity's board members fired. including the president, mike lynch. hello, mr. lynch! yesterday, we approached lynch at his rural home near his operation's headquarters. he told us we were the first to bring him the news of the

california complaint and said he'd have something to say tomorrow. all right, we'll see you tomorrow. >> okay. >> reporter: at 8:00 this morning, mike lynch was at his office, telling us as soon as he talked with his lawyers, he'd be happy to answer questions. mr. lynch, drew griffin. >> hi, how are you? >> reporter: i'm sure you're aware of the serious charges being -- >> not yet. i'm waiting to talk to the attorneys. so as soon as i speak with joe and them when they call me this morning, i'd be happy to speak with you. >> reporter: four hours later, michael lynch said this -- >> i have a statement that i have prepared. it says, we hope that these unproven allegations will not diminish the more than 40 years of service hhp has provided to our nation's most valuable treasure, our veterans. hhv looks forward to the chance to tell its story and hopes that this action will not impede its ability to provide vital support to hospitalized veterans nationwide. thank you very much.

>> reporter: well what about -- i got to ask you about the money though. i mean that doesn't answer any of the questions about the money that they're -- that's it? that's all you're -- you guys are going to say? anderson, help hospitalized veterans gets its money through direct marketing pleas. american target advertising is known by richard vigeray. in a really strange twist, according to the california attorney general, the charity, which paid american target advertising millions in fund-raising costs, turned around and loaned the company $800,000. why? we don't have any clue. the spokesman told us there would be no comment at this time. >> it's just -- again, amazes me how each time when we're asking questions of these charities. which you would think transparency is the key for any charity. if their reputations were being questioned, they would want to answer questions.

yet this guy reads a statement his lawyer helped him write and then disappears. how does this charity stack up in the ratings of those watchdog groups? >> not well. one group gives it a one star out of five. charity watchdog in chicago gives it a flatout "f" rating. the ratio of expenses versus the benefits going to any veterans is very low. >> unbelievable. i want to bring in california's attorney general. attorney general harris, this charity claims all it wants to do is help veterans. do you buy that? >> i think the charity itself purports to enhance, help some veterans. as to these directors we have charged, they've basically been lining the pockets off the compassion that americans have for our veterans and serviceen and women and that has to be stopped. a large part of this focus and action in filing this complaint is also to be able to preserve

the charitable assets that exist in that ornization so they can be directed to the veterans and not office holders and directors. >> we've done a series of these reports. this is just the latest one. they're raising tens of millions of dollars in many cases, these groups. a lot of that money, the bulk of it, seems to be going just to increase their mailing lists to do more advertising, to get more money, rather than -- and these high salaries. according to your complaint, help hospitalized veterans has basically misled the irs for years. >> i would suggest they knew they were misrepresenting the facts to the irs on their 990 form and were misrepresenting it to such an extent that they inverted the numbers. what we have found is that, in fact, over 65% of their revenue went to overhead and not to the programs that were intended to help these vets. and it's outrageous. it really is.

they have really tugged i think at the heart strings of americans who want to help our veterans. and, instead, they've had gulf club memberships and condominiums and they've been lining their pockets, their personal pockets. >> i mean, you wish these organizations in their advertising, rather than implying that all this money's going to help veterans that they would admit, here's how much our director makes and here's how much we're giving to some company for a mailing list. i'll bet a lot of people wouldn't want to donate money. a lot of this information first came up i understand in congressional hearings in 2008. why has only now california acted? >> well, i came into office in 2011 and focusing on our veterans in california has been a priority for my administration. we have 2 million veterans in california, of the 22 million veterans in the united states. so we prioritized this case. and we're now filing this complaint. and the focus will not stop here.

the reality is there are a lot of predators who take advantage of our service men and women and our veterans. and we have to pay attention to that. our veterans and service men and women can be, in the case of hospitalized vets, a very vulnerable and in need of support and care. with our service men and women, they also tend to be very trusting. we've found a lot of predatory practices that focus on them as consumers with money to spend. and its outrageous, anderson, it really is, when we think of what they do on a daily basis to protect us. and there are people who are out there taking advantage of our compassion for them in a way that allows them to profit. it's outrageous. that's why we're putting the full force of law into going after these guys and, believe me, they will face a full accounting and consequence for their misconduct. >> drew griffin is still with us. this other group you've been doing a lot of reporting on for years. they also have sent tens of millions of dollars to one of

these mailing list companies, drew. i mean, it sounds like quadriga art. sounds like they're doing a similar job for dvnf that this other group is doing for hhv. >> yeah, the private fund-raising companies are making a fortune off all of us donating their funds. that is very true. what i think is a little different here, though, anderson, is in dvnf's case, we couldn't tell anybody directly at the charity was lining their pockets. what the attorney general here is outlining is much more egregious. and i would almost say, and i'll let her say it, if she would, attorney general harris, it's almost criminal. it's almost like these guys are stealing the money that was destined to go to the veterans. in dvnfs case, i think it was just a big screw up and the private fund-raiser has that charity over the barrel. this seems much more insidious.

>> attorney general harris, at this point, while you're pursuing this legally, they can still send out solicitations, right? >> this is why, as part of our action, we're requiring the directors and officers step down, so that we can purge the organization of the bad apples and preserve the assets that exist, so that the money that folks have given to that organization, with the intention of going to veterans, that it actually will go to veterans heretofore. >> attorney general, appreciate you being with us. drew griffin, again, great reporting. there are good charities out there. especially ones trying to help vets. if you want to find out which ones, go to a group like charity navigator which gives you a rating basically of the transparency of all these groups. that's at least a good first stop to try to figure out what charity is legitimate. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. i'll be tweeting tonight. raw politics also ahead. new evidence one of these two men would be benefiting from

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new polling says a lot more about where the presidential horse race stands at the moment. the numbers do show obama opening up a seven-point lead over romney. other numbers in that same survey could be opening a window into more. including effect negative ads are having on romney's

likability. team romney complains about one iffy campaign spot. they do not mention the factually dubious ad of their own. the polling speaks to the power of such ads. the new polling also covered how some of the possible romney running mates might play with the public. john king has been crunching the numbers for us. i want to ask you another interesting number in today's poll. there's been a 17-point swing in just one month. the majority of americans and even more independents now saying they don't have a favorable impression of mitt romney. does this mean the attack ads are working? >> yes. i would say anderson, i'm always wary when you see a 17-point swing. you wonder if maybe your poll's a little bit out there. we'll watch to see what the next one says. there is no doubt in our poll and in other polls mitt romney's favorables are on the rise and there's no doubt it's because of not only the attack ads from the obama campaign but the obama

campaign's friends in the super pac community. don't discount the fact the president's on the road. outwardly bashing mitt romney. >> i think you said "mitt romney's favorables are on the rise." you meant his unfavorables? >> i'm sorry, right. >> there is a poll about possible vp picks. doesn't seem like there's been one favorite one, one main contender. now that we're in the homestretch, any sign that is changing? >> if you look at our new poll, there are some changes. i'll go to the state of florida to show you our poll. we asked people in our new poll, who would you like to see mitt romney choose as his running mate? look who comes out on top. he's got a lot attention. he's a tea party darling. the conservative base loves him. he's also been selling a book and he's on tv a lot. marco rubio, then the new jersey governor, chris christie. they say they want governor christie. then paul ryan, the house budget committee chairman. then you see governor jindal.

two other guys on the short list. portman and pawlenty down at the very end. we also asked republicans who ey think romney will choose. they still think rubio. senator rubio tops the list. then governor christie. you see these other guys in single digits. this is largely a question for even republican voters right now. these are republicans, as romney and who. we asked people, do you have a favorable, unfavorable opinion? or are you unsure? do you not know enough about these guys to have an opinion? nearly half of americans, republicans, say they don't know enough about marco rubio. 32% say they don't know enough about chris christie. the numbers are higher when you get to ryan. jindal. pawlenty. even republicans are looking act these choices and saying who. >> is there any reason to believe any pick will give a boost to romney against president obama? >> we've seen polls in recent days from the key battleground states.

a poll in virginia showed the president up a little bit. is that a reason to pick governor mcdonald? there's been a poll in wisconsin just yesterday showing the president up five or six points. people in that state say he would help in the state of wisconsin. if you look at the short lists we know of, you have pawlenty from minnesota, it tells you governor romney is looking at this part of the country out here. michigan perhaps. he's looking at that part of the country as he narrow his choices. some say maybe portman helps a little. maybe ryan helps a little. that's the calculations governor romney is going to make. certainly he's looking at this region of the country. >> john, thank you very much. chief political correspondent candy crowley and republican strategist ari fleisher who is working for the romney campaign as an occasional unpaid communication, adviser.

what's the strategy, the timing? >> well, you look for maximum exposure. how many days play can you get off your vp pick. so if you're in search of some excitement, obviously, john mccain sort of fit that bill. he really -- it really came at a time -- his announcement came at a time he was rolling to his convention, as next week will be for mitt romney, rolling into the week after, which is the convention. so they want to figure out how they can build excitement going into the convention, because honestly there are three things right now that help mitt romney break through if he is to break through. one of them is his vice presidential pick. onof them is his speech at the convention. and one of them is his performance at the three presidential debates. so those three things are huge and key and you want to just maximize that as much as

possible. at the same time, i'm assuming at this point mitt romney has pretty much made up his mind. you have to begin to tell the person themselves and to offer it, et cetera, et cetera. so the circle's getting bigger. what you don't want is to have it leak out before you're ready to have it happen. >> ari, you've been tweeting you're prepared to say who you think the candidate is. do you think romney has already made this decision? i asked you because in 2000 you got a very upclose look at this process with then candidate george w. bush. >> i agree with everything candy said in her analysis, it was right on, except for that last point. if i were in charge of the romney selection process, i would not tell the person it was going to be till within 24 hours of the selection. otherwise, it's sure to leak. you've got to really close that window and close it tight. i don't think mitt romney has made the final decision in his mind who it will be yet.

once he does, it sets loose a whole lot of important events. and with the person who's going to get named. all of it predicated on absolute secrecy so when the governor tweets it or announces it on his app that will be the first time people hear it. >> do you want to say who you think it should be? >> i've said this in some events i've been to. i've always been a paul ryan guy. i would have supported either mitch daniels or paul ryan for presidency if they had been in it earlier. because i believe this nation just needs so badly a jolt of economic adrenaline. we're heading towards greece with the debt we have. we need somebody who can take that seriously and will really bring this country's budget first and foremost with a growth oriented plan to the center of the national attention. the problem i with have ryan is the democrats want him so badly. salivates at the opportunity to get paul ryan. it turns the race into a fight over medicare and off the economy.

that will be the stakes if its paul ryan. >> candy, do you agree that a lot of democrats want ryan for that very reason? >> absolutely. they think that it would make mitt romney even more vulnerable. it ties him very tightly to the ryan plan. and, look, this is -- also could be a positive for mitt romney because this is a man who is still having a little trouble with his base. you're seeing all these conservative publics come out saying paul ryan, paul ryan, paul ryan. one of the things it does do is activate the conservative base. i still believe that in the end this is a race that's going to be decided on turnout. i don't think this is a message race so much as it is a turnout race. who do you need in your turnout base? you need your base. that's the conservatives. paul ryan certainly satisfies that for mitt romney. as do others. but the democrats look at this and think, wow, we just have to go out there and talk social security because that obviously

was kind of what was seen as a politically toxic part of ryan but i think that ari's right in that, look, it will be a real argument. i mean, you would be able to tell the difference between these two tickets. but it is a lot for mitt romney to take on, even as he's trying to convince folks that he's the right guy to have to also take on the ryan plan at the same time. >> ari, in terms of timing, do you think next week would be the time? how far in advance of the convention? >> yeah, i think it is going to be next week. i think they want to have as much of a runway heading into the convention with the plane flying. where the two are together. maybe split up, then back together for the convention. that will have a lot of oomph and impact to it. one thing about this whole vice presidential interest. ideally, and there are well-designed plans, unlike 2008, a vice predential selection is interesting for a week, maybe three. then it settles right back down to the race for the presidency.

vice presidential campaigns are overmagnified, overanalyzed right now, till we know who it is. but ultimately this is a race between mitt romney and barack obama. that's what shapes the outcome of the race. unless the choice like 2008 turns into a mistake, turns into a situation where the candidate wilts under pressure, and hurts the nominee who picked that person. i think that's what happened in 2008. unlikely to happen with any other romney picks this year. >> ari, appreciate it, candy crowley, thank you very much. up next, kids who have never seen sunlight. it may be hard to imagine. russian police say they've discovered an underground bunk wear dozens of adults and kids were living without natural light for years. the full story ahead. a plane crash caught on tape. [ annie ] this is the story of a girl named annie

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bizarre story out of russia tonight. the discovery of children, some of whom, authorities say, had never seen the light of day. for up to as much as ten years. they were found by russian police living below ground in a caticome-like structure. the space, described as ght levels deep, lacking ventilation and natural light. police said the adults and children were members of a small secretive islamic sect. matthew chance. do we know why they were living underground for so long? >> this was a very isolationist sect it seems according to the authorities that basically broke it up within the last 48 hours or so. they kept themselves -- to themselves in a very extreme

way. only a couple of members of this islamist sect were committed to have contact with the outside world at all to work as market traders, presumably to earn money so they could buy some kind of food for themselves. the vast majority the community, the women and children and the majority of the men as well, were confined to this compound on the outskirts of kazan, which is a relatively big city of about 1 1/2 million people in western russia. it's because of that isolation, anderson, that the true extent of what they were up to wasn't really identified, as you mentioned there, perhaps for as long as a decade by the authorities. the police have said that some of these children between the ages of 1 and 17 years old never saw a doctor, never went to school, never went out of the compound and never even saw the light of day. it is quite incredible what they were put through. >> yeah, i actually worked in kazan years ago. it's in a country called tatarstan.

what were the living conditions like for these kids? >> really, really appalling, even by the standards of provincial russia. we saw pictures that have come out, you can see them now, of appalling poverty inside the ramshackle building above the surface. below the surface of course it was even worse. the police have described it as a catacomb-like situation with small cells in which dozens of people were crammed as their living quarters. the sanitary conditions very poor. there was no natural light. no ventilation. it must have been absolutely terrible for them. the majority of the children, if not all of them, have been taken into care or else taken to hospital. where they're being given medical checkups. at the moment, it's not clear any of them are in any bad state. there are reports one of the children, a 17-year-old woman, is pregnant. and was in that condition inside these catacomb-like cells. in general, the children seem to

have been relatively healthy. according to the authorities in russia, they were extremely dirty. they've been cleaned up now and they're undergoing extensive medical checks, anderson. >> it's a bizarre story, matthew, thank you. there's a lot more we're following. isha is here. >> members of the free syrian army say they pulled back from a hot spot area in aleppo, syria's largest city. they say they're preparing a counterattack. meantime, government forces hired rockets into homs where thousands of displaced syrians have taken refuge. the death toll today across syria was at least 142. colorado shooting suspect james holmes was back in court today but cameras were not. at today's hearing, his lawyers told the judge their client is mentally ill and 17 news organizations, including cnn, argued that the full court record in the case should be unsealed. the judge did not rule on the request.

in oak creek, wisconsin, cnn's ted rowlands got an exclusive look inside the sikh temple where a gunman opened fire, killing six and then shooting himself. a fund-raising campaign to rebuild joplin, missouri's, only mosque. has reached half its goal in just two days. nearly 1,000 donors, many anonymous, have donated $126,000 so far. and a dramatic memento of a very close call. a video camera was running when a vintage four seater plane crashed into idaho shortly after takeoff. thankfully, everyone on board survived. the video, it's hard to watch. >> yeah, it's unbelievable. i'm glad everyone was okay. thanks very much. the kid in this video may have the coolest dad on the planet. take a look. >> yes! no need to go to an amusement pa. you have your own roller coaster in the backyard. i hope he's strapped in tightly.

pretty cool. how fun would that be? >> am i too old to have a roller coaster in my backyard? >> i don't think so. why not? >> i can always count on you. >> isha, thanks very much. there's a lot of other stories we're covering tonight. the next story we got to tell you about after the commercial break is not heartwarming. it's downright troubling. a young man who died in police custody and the story of how he died, well, it's nearly impossible to believe. a lot of people are ♪ ♪ three, six, nine ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪ ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ pat it on your partner's hand ♪ ♪ right hand ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ cross it with your left arm ♪ pat your partner's left palm ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand, pat your partner's right palm ♪

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demanding answers. they want to know how a bullet ended up in this young man's right temple while he was handcuffed in the back of a police car. chavez carter was 21 years old. hundreds of people came to a candlelight vigil this week to honor him. one sign side "justice for carter, what really happened?" what really happened is a question the fbi is now investigating. so is our randi kaye. >> reporter: no one is disputing that he ed from a gunshot to the head while in the back seat of a police car. the question is who pulled the trigger. police say he committed suicide. >> quite frankly, i've seen some of our people in custody do some amazing things. >> reporter: chavez's mother doesn't believe it. >> my son wasn't suicidal. >> reporter: at this point, it's still debatable and still under investigation. here's why.

21-year-old travis carter was handcuffed at the time the shot was fired, double-locked behind his back. is it even possible to be cuffed behind your back and somehow pull the trigger on a gun you weren't holding when you were handcuffed? >> for the average person that's never been in handcuffs, that's never been around inmates and people in custody, would react exactly the same way that you just did, about how can that be possible. well, the fact of it is, it's very possible and it's quite easy. >> reporter: chavez carter and two others were pulled over july 29 just before 10:00 p.m. for driving suspiciously. the first officer called for backup. then the two of them questioned and searched the three men in the truck. when officers first searched carter, they say they found a small amount of marijuana and some small plastic bags. they did not find a gun. according to the officers, carter was then placed in the

back seat of one of the police vehicles. at that point, they say, he was not handcuffed. it wasn't till later when the officers searched the suspect's vehicle and found drug paraphernalia like electronic scales that they patted down carter again. they placed him once again, they say, in the same police vehicle's back seat, only this time, he was handcuffed. how carter managed to shoot himself while handcuffed using a concealed weapon police missed during not one but two searches is a mystery to many. including the fbi who was looking into it. in their searching, they find a small bag, $10 worth of marijuana, but they miss a gun? >> apparently. >> reporter: is that disappointing to you? >> yes. >> reporter: the chief says the two men with carter who were white were released. but carter was held back after the officers who were also white had discovered had he given them a fake name and there was a warrant for his arrest in mississippi, where he'd skipped out on a drug diversion program.

the chief says his officers don't know exactly when the fatal shot was fired. even though they were just feet away. according to this incident report, one of the officers heard, quote, a loud thump with a metallic sound, but thought it came from a vehicle that ran over a piece of metal on the roadway. don't your officers know the sound of a gun being fired? >> one would think. but when those guns are in a confined space like the rear of a police car it could be very, very different. >> reporter: it wasn't till the officers were about to leave when police say one of them smelled something burning in his vehicle. the chief says it was likely gun smoke. that's when police say the officer found chavez carter bloodied and slumped over into the back seat. the officers say they called an ambulance and tried to revive carter. he died at the hospital. carter's mother says it just doesn't add up. she told reporters her son was shot in the right side of the head. but she points out, he was left

handed. police would only say he was shot in the head. >> they searched him twice. i mean, i just want to know what really happened. >> reporter: theresa carter says her son called his girlfriend from the scene to tell her he'd phone her from jail, which to her raises the question, does that sound like someone planning to commit suicide? in jonesboro, supporters held vigils. like many, they wonder what motive carter had to kill himself. a $10 bag of marijuana. white powder that hasn't tested positive for drugs? an outstanding warrant? we asked the chief about theresa carter's allegations. that one of his officers pulled the trigger. can you safely say you've ruled that out in your investigation? >> not at this stage in the investigation and certainly a remote possibility. like i say, we haven't excluded everything.

but i feel confident that that's not what it is. i certainly understand how she might feel that way. >> reporter: there is dash cam video. the trouble is, it doesn't show the moment the gun was fired. that's because the two police cars were parked trunk to trunk, so the dash cam didn't capture carter sitting in the back seat. police have already reconstructed what happened using a duplicate vehicle. they're waiting for the autopsy to be finished to see what they visualize what happened is consistent with the results. randi kaye, cnn, jesboro, arkansas. >> obviously, a lot will depend on those autopsy results. joining me now is dr. michael hunter. he's the chief medical examiner in panama city, florida. and lou polomo, former police officer. all the years you worked in law enforcement, does this make any

sense to you? >> no. it warrants being looked into, anderson. and to be quite honest with you, there are some problems here. and the first problem is simply stated when you take someone into custody as a law enforcement agent, you're responsible for their safety from that point going forward. he obviously was unsupervised. to i guess their own admission they didn't properly search this individual because they're working from the premise he shot himself. there are some issues here that need to be looked into, which is probably why the fbi is looking at this as well. when we get into the autopsy and the forensics, we're going to look for residue on his hand. in this case, being that this individual was left handed, should be on his left hand, am i correct, i would think they would have taken photos of this individual in the back seat of the car. and, again, you have to explain how he was capable of getting

his gun to the temple of his head. which to be fair isn't that out of the question. oftentimes, you'll handcuff people in the rear and they'll literally slip it under their back side and down their legs and up in front. >> it's possible to do that? >> absolutely. but the other thing that's going to tell the tale is when they look at the angle of the entry wound and the distance. so there's some investigative tools here to try to sort through this. i would tell you this warrant's being looked into. >> you say from a pathology standpoint, this case should not be too difficult to solve, given all those things lou was talking about. the bullet trajectory, the closeness of the muzzle to the head, et cetera? >> well, anderson, what you have to do is correlate what you see at the autopsy with the scene. it has to make scene. if this was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, there are characteristics you'll look for

at autopsy. classically, these wounds are wounds where the muzzle's directly up against the skin. we can tell that. we can look at someone and say yes, indeed, that's a contact gunshot wound. if it's a more distance gunshot wound, then it really does raise the possibility that you're dealing with a homicide. trajectory's important. what's the position of his head when that weapon was fired. that has to make sense. there has to be evidence there actually was a gun discharged within the vehicle itself. so those are things you have to look at at the autopsy, at the scene. now one of the problems with this is it's an altered crime scene. his body was taken from the vehicle and removed to a hospital and because of that, there may be a question of staging. could this scene have been staged. a lot of -- >> would you be able to tell if a gun had been discharged inside the vehicle as opposed to discharged outside the vehicle? >> well, you can do gunshot

residue on both the victims. you can do gunshot residue analysis of the police officers in question. you're looking for material that may be present on the hands. just gunpowder material, blood, spatter, types of things like that. those are something that you want to see on the person who shot the weapon. if it's the victim in this case or the police officers. also, you want to look at the vehicle itself and see if there's any gun powder material in the vehicle. >> lou, briefly, does it make sense to you two officers riding in the car would not hear a gun going off inside a vehicle? >> interestingly enough, in arkansas, it's probably quite warm. having the windows up in the vehicle and the air conditioning on. you know, you could muffle the sound. the report or the loudness of discharging a 380 automatic pistol which is the weapon used here isn't that loud comparatively speaking to like 9 millimeter or .45 caliber weapon. part of what's going to tell the tale here is the side of the head in which the wound was inflicted.

his mother indicated he was left handed. but there's an entry wound on the right side. that's problematic. >> lou, appreciate your expertise, michael hunter as well. obviously a lot more we need to follow up on. we'll be right back. a range of coverages to choose from. who is she? that's flobot. she's this new robot we're trying out, mostly for, like, small stuff. wow! look at her go! she's pretty good. she's pretty good. hey, flobot, great job. oops. [ powers down ] uh-oh, flobot is broken. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. call or click today.

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time for the riduculist. tonight, we're adding the bob costas olympic sign-off controversy. that's right. you didn't even know that there was a controversy, did you? mr. costas has been anchoring nbc's coverage from london. he signs off. at least he's supposed to. >> he did it to us again. he did it again. he does it every four years. bob doesn't know that 12:00 means 12:00. >> yikes. that was a sportscaster at wtlv in jacksonville, florida. his own personal pommel horse. to be fair to mr. costas,

sometimes things go long. as you probably know, nbc holds exclusive rights to the olympics in the united states. so there are limits to what we can show you mr. costas on air. as you can see here in this exclusive image, the man is clearly busy. he is a seasoned professional. if his show runs long, it runs long. after all, it's not like there's much difference between 12:00 and 12:02. >> it doesn't mean 12:02 it doesn't mean 12:04. it certainly doesn't mean 12:07. bob, when it's 12:00, you say good night. >> okay, apparently there is a lot of difference between 12:00 and 12:02. what do i know? i just cannot get enough of that piers morgan. he's british you know. look, i get the frustration of the folks in jacksonville. it's a long day. they got to stay up late. they wish mr. costas had wrapped things up on time.

>> you don't care because you're sleeping right now and in the morning you wake up with your strawberries and cream at your five star. >> all right. that was kind of personal actually. strawberries and cream? was that a dig against the british? does piers know about this. the anchors are standing there waiting for it all to be over. in case you're wondering, it wasn't. >> 12:07 does not work for us! i'm glad we had the little gymnast girls. i'm excited about it. i'm glad we got to interview phelps six times. but bob. i'm done. i love him though. >> ratchet it down a little bit there, big guy. you should love him, by the way. in fact, a good rule of television, pipe down and love anyone who's giving you a lead-in full of the fab five gymnasts and michael phelps. america can't get enough of michael phelps. we are giving it the gold on tonight's ridiculist. we'll be right back.

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